"-Amateur" (amateur)
08/05/2013 at 02:31 • Filed to: None | 13 | 75 |
So you kind of accidentally went back in time and wound up somewhere in the 80's. Your inner Jalop-sense is turning your shock into excitement, because it's the era of the Killer B's ...
Naturally, you showed up in your friend's Delorean that he had for sale. You were test-driving it one day and well...the rest is history.
The back story to the Group B rally class is this. It starts in 1982, with the FIA creating an all new class of rallying. It lowered road car homologation requirement to only 200, compared to Group A's 5000. Combine that with very few restrictions on the technology for these cars and we have a recipe for success; I mean there was no limit to boost pressures or the materials used at all. Manufacturers took this as a playground to test their state-of-the-art technologies, and with that came a huge marketing opportunity to boost their marques through this take no prisoners style of competition.
The cars throughout this era were monsters, barely controlled by their drivers. They were all wheel drive machines with advanced materials such as aluminum, magnesium, and Kevlar, capable of speeds that were faster than F1 cars at that time. The only limitation these beasts had was the road itself and the driver.
LANCIA 037
A knife to a gunfight, this RWD Lancia Won the World Championship by beating out an AWD Audi Quattro
PEDIGREE: 1983 World Rally Champion
DRIVERS: Walter Rohrl and Markku Alen
PERFORMANCE: EVO II form , 325hp
WEIGHT: 2161 lbs
LAYOUT: Mid-Engined RWD
ENGINE: 2.0 L in-line 4 DOHC with supercharger
AUDI QUATTRO:
The original AWD rally car that was a paradigm shift to the rally world. It was front heavy, unreliable, and unwieldy to drive. That didn't stop it from winning the 1982 and 1984 World Rally Championships.
PEDIGREE: 1982 and 1984 World Rally Champion
DRIVERS: Michelle Mouton, Stig Blomqvist, Hannu Mikkola, and Walter Rohrl
PERFORMANCE: 300hp
WEIGHT: 2645 lbs
LAYOUT: Front Engine AWD
ENGINE: 2.1 L in-line 5 DOHC with turbocharger
Audi Quattro S1 E2 Variant:
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war"...0-62 mph came at a blistering 3.1 seconds
PERFORMANCE: 500hp
WEIGHT: 2403 lbs
LAYOUT: Front Engine AWD
ENGINE: 2.1 L in-line 5 DOHC with turbocharger
FORD RS200
"This car is like a spaceship on wheels" -Abraham Lincoln
It had a spaceframe chassis, Kevlar body panels, and twin shock absorbers on all 4 corners. The car was mid-engine with a front mounted transmission that required power to be sent to the front wheels first before the rear, creating a very complex drive train setup. The RS200 also has tons of Sierra parts crammed into it because Ford was in kind of a hurry to build this thing.
PEDIGREE: 3rd place finish 1986 Rally of Sweden
DRIVERS: Kalle Grundel, Marc Surer, Michel Wyder
PERFORMANCE: 450hp
WEIGHT: 2315 lbs
LAYOUT: Mid-engine AWD
ENGINE: 1.8 L in-line 4 DOHC with turbocharger
Lancia Delta S4
Function over form, the S4 was a juggernaut through and through
PEDIGREE: 2nd place in 1986 and 3rd in the 1985 World Rally Championship
DRIVERS: Henri Toivonen and Markku Alen
PERFORMANCE: Official "480" HP, realistically 560 HP
WEIGHT: 1962 lbs
LAYOUT: Mid-engine AWD
ENGINE: 1.8 L in-line 4 DOHC twincharged super and turbo
Peugeot 205 T16
"When there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph" -Pierre Corneille
PEDIGREE: 1985 and 1986 World Rally Champion
DRIVERS: Timo Salonen and Juha Kankkunen
PERFORMANCE: 424 HP
WEIGHT: 2000 lbs
LAYOUT: Mid-engine AWD
ENGINE: 1.8 L in-line 4 DOHC turbocharged
Rover Metro 6R4
This is what happens when you're late to the game...Group B gets banned halfway through your premiere season
PEDIGREE: 3rd place finish in the 1985 Lombard RAC Rally
DRIVERS: Tony Pond
PERFORMANCE: 410 HP
WEIGHT: 2292 lbs
LAYOUT: Rear/mid-engine AWD
ENGINE: 3.0 L V-6 DOHC naturally aspirated
Renault 5 Turbo 2
Completely outclassed at every turn
PEDIGREE: 1st place in 1981 Monte Carlo Rally and 1985 Tour de Corse
DRIVERS: Jean Ragnotti
PERFORMANCE: 345 HP
WEIGHT: 2138 lbs
LAYOUT: mid-engine RWD
ENGINE: 1.5 L inline-4 DOHC turbocharged
Other Notable Mentions:
Toyota Celica
Porsche 959
Citroen 4TC
The End of an Era
Group B, in its closing moments was plagued by death. In 1986, A Ford Rs200 plowed into a crowd of spectators, killing 3 while injuring 31. Later that year, A Lancia Delta S4 flew off the road at the Tour de Corso stage of the Corsican Rally. The car crashed into a ravine and burst into flames. It was in such a remote spot, that rescue teams took half an hour to get to the scene. All that was left was a blackened space frame and the dead bodies of Driver Henri Toivonen and Co-Driver Sergio Cresto still sitting in their seats. A Few hours after this incident, the FIA officially banned Group B starting from the 1987 season.
Toivonen's last words to the public were, "It's hard to keep up with the speed" before his fatal accident.
Hoccy
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 04:35 | 0 |
Well, you forgot the Opel Manta 400 and the Ascona 400..
Fred (FreddsterExprs)
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 05:15 | 4 |
And there was an RX-7 too.
Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 07:23 | 0 |
Mmmmm. Rally Spec Metro
Brutal Calves
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 07:45 | 0 |
The Audi Sport Quattro deserves a separate mention.
themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 07:48 | 4 |
Nissan's 240RS rally car is very sad about being forgotten.
And the starion wants to know what it did to be forgotten too! It tried its hardest!
Oh, and the chaps who made the sunbeam-talbot would like to have a word with you.
Raphael Orlove
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 07:49 | 2 |
There was a totally-not-hideous Lada Samara EVA Group B car, too.
http://groupbrally.com/?page_id=19
JayHova
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 07:50 | 6 |
There are a lot of oddball cars missing:
Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint 6C
BMW M1
Citroën Visa 1000 Pistes
Ferrari 288 GTO Evoluzione
Lada 2105 VFTS
Mitsubishi Starion 4WD
Mazda RX-7 4x4
Nissan 240RS
Opel Manta 400
Opel Ascona 400
Peugeot 305 V6
Porsche 911 SC RS
Škoda 130 LR
Wartburg 353 WR
Paul
> themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
08/05/2013 at 07:58 | 0 |
There's a chance that Nissan 240RS is still alive and kicking. The plate is still registered to a 1984 Nissan, though there's no model detail given. Makes me wonder where that car is after all these years.
Paul
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:00 | 5 |
There's always room for a road-legal 6R4 'replica'.
X-cchannel-M
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:04 | 1 |
The Toyota Celica deserves more than a passing mention. It won the Safari Rally, arguably the toughest rally, three times in a row. It beat all the mid-engined 4wd wunderkinds.
stevestamop
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:17 | 0 |
For anyone wanting to know more about Group B, this doco is highly recommended
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xty1w4_b…
Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V)
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:22 | 1 |
FTW! They still get a big round of applause in Hungary and in Eastern Europe in general, I guess.
What makes it even more interesting is that the production of the base car stopped just the other year.
mike89
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:25 | 3 |
You forgot the Ferrari 308 GTB Gr.B
jvallido
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:36 | 0 |
at first i thought this picture was the next rally car console game.
Egg
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:43 | 0 |
kakster
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:43 | 0 |
If you have access to the BBC iPlayer, there's a great documentary called "Madness on Wheels" that charts the rise and fall of Group B. Great interviews with the likes of Rohrl, Mouton, Jean Todd amongst others. A really tantalizing glimpse of what racing cars would be like when there were no almost rules on what you did to your car to make it go faster.
Nick-Speed
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 08:43 | 0 |
They are missing because the were not and are not Group B cars.
Charlie B. Sharenative
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:44 | 0 |
Holy Monday, these are awesome photos! Any chance you have them desktop-sized? (1900 wide)
apr10427 - Greedo never fired
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 08:48 | 1 |
The Alpine A310 was also homologated, but I'm not sure of its competition history. I believe it was only run in a select few rallies with lots of tarmac, but I've never found any strong sources to back this up.
Nick-Speed
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:52 | 1 |
The Lancia 037 and Renault R5 Turbo 2 were not Group B cars.
Except the 3-4 times raced RX7, none of the "forget-me-nots" below were Group B cars. Absolutely. Unequivocally.
philphil
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:53 | 1 |
Lancia Stratos, where are youuuuuuu?
Dejan Jovanovic
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 08:58 | 2 |
Autolegend86
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 09:12 | 0 |
Pretty half ass post considering all the other entries.
Where are the Russian cars?
Highbury
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 09:24 | 0 |
Ah, the good 'ol Group B. Wish i was around when it was in it's peak years, sadly no such luck. Some of my personal most beloved cars are Group B homologations. I've seen countless arguments on which car was the pinnacle of that era, but i don't think this is worth disputing over. Each one of them was special in its own way and each deserves an adequate amount of respect.
Minor side note: Ari Vatanen also drove the 205 T16 since it's entry in '84 until mid-February '85 and claimed a handful of victories.
Burger-Lord
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 09:29 | 0 |
Just added the Lancia 037 to my beautiful car list.
You had fordboy357 at "meat tornado"
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 09:48 | 0 |
Eventhough I'm sure it would kill me within 100 yards of driving it, the RS200 is still my dream car
decece
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 10:37 | 1 |
Couldn't you find a more flattering picture of the BX4TC?
Here you go:
JayHova
> Autolegend86
08/05/2013 at 10:50 | 0 |
Are there other soviet Grp.B contenders besides the Lada? The VTFS is the only russian (the baltic states belonged to the SU then) one I've heard of (besides a Lada Samara and a Moskvich Aleko which barely made it to a prototype state).
Flachzwilling
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 11:01 | 0 |
I hate it to jump around on your name "Amateur" but please, for the love of the asphalt-eating gravel god, it is "Walter Röhrl" or - if your typeset does not support our funky röck döts - "Walter Roehrl". "Rohrl" is just plain wrong.
Autolegend86
> Autolegend86
08/05/2013 at 11:04 | 0 |
That reply was to the OP. You did good.
-Amateur
> Charlie B. Sharenative
08/05/2013 at 11:09 | 0 |
Thanks! I wish I did, the only picture I have that comes even remotely close to 1900 is the Ford RS200 at 1582 wide.
BoxerRumble
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 11:13 | 0 |
i want that audi as a wallpaper! where can i get it?
Reginald Fessenden
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 11:30 | 0 |
HELLO??? While Group B rally cars were in fact mind bendingly fast on fire roads, safari tracks, and open deserts, to even think (much less write) that they were the equal to F1 cars of the same era is just about the dumbest thing I have ever seen in print. The 80s were the F1 Turbo era with the BMW engine somewhere north of (who knows exactly how far north of) 1200 horsepower in qualifying configuration. So, you seem to be arguing that a 500 HP 2000+ LB boxy production based car (albeit a very fast one) could outrun a 1200 HP 1200 LB F1 car? I want some of what you are smoking cuz it is better than what I've got.
James May is my spirit animal
> philphil
08/05/2013 at 11:36 | 0 |
Lacking the Stratos made me a bit weepy :(
-Amateur
> Reginald Fessenden
08/05/2013 at 11:36 | 1 |
Of Course its Apples to Oranges, but speed is speed.
"F1 champion Nigel Mansell once tested a race-prepped Group B Peugeot 205 T16 and actually said that he felt the little bugger could out-accelerate his F1 car"
"Rally legend Henri Toivonen once drove his Delta S4 around the Estoril Formula One track so fast that people who timed him said he would have qualified 6th for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix"
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/group-b-r…
matthewtyzack
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 11:59 | 0 |
This horrendous crash:
CarBastard
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 12:02 | 0 |
Wait, Lada and Wartburg actually made Group C cars??? Who did they get to drive such a car!!! I mean, you have to be pretty crazy to drive a normal Lada/Wartburg, how crazy do you have to be to drive a Lada/Wartburg that packs s fair amount of HP on a loose gravel sufrace? It's not like this particular cars are famous for being safe, reliable or well-built...
abaiz.2009
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 12:25 | 0 |
This list should just be labeled "My Dream Cars".
-Amateur
> BoxerRumble
08/05/2013 at 12:28 | 0 |
The biggest one I could find is 1600x1280:
Ninja-GUY
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 12:32 | 0 |
Am I right to recall that the 959 and F40 were both originally started for Group B?
typhoon5000
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 12:38 | 1 |
Another notable driver of the Metro 6R4, is M-Sport's current team principal (who run the Ford WRC cars), Malcolm Wilson.
Expulsion1989
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 13:18 | 1 |
This one was more meant for Group S racing, but they may have had eyes on Group B, as well:
JayHova
> CarBastard
08/05/2013 at 13:19 | 0 |
Whoa....don't exaggerate! Even though they aren't exactly the best-handling cars ever built, they are handling pretty well - the Wartburg even has independent rear suspension and the WR had around 110 hp (compared to the 55 of the stock version).
The Lada was a license production of the Fiat 124 which was a serious rival of the Alfa Guilia....the russian version got more suspension travel and ride height and lost the rear discs in favour of drums, but kept its FR setup.
Edit: There also was a mid-engined Wartburg version - theMelkus RS1000...1 litre 3-pot (2 stroke!) with 75 hp and 750 kilos.....the sport version had a 100 hp engine and propelled the 680 kilo version to ~210 kp/h.
Kraddock
> BoxerRumble
08/05/2013 at 13:25 | 0 |
My take on it (1920x1200)
http://img230.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=…
Foo2rama
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 14:37 | 0 |
group b and group b rally. Some of the things you listed are not rally. Also technically the 959 was never rallied and made for group b non rally like the 288. Also the M1 was not for any variant of group b.
JayHova
> Foo2rama
08/05/2013 at 14:42 | 0 |
Which one of the listed cars wasn't made for rally? Also: 959 won the Dakar, so it was rallied.
RiddldedTomcat
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 14:42 | 0 |
They are all so BEAUTIFUL!
Reginald Fessenden
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 18:08 | 0 |
OK let's go for Round 2 here. Just because someone SAID it does not make it true. Let's start with the fact that a rally car will be geared to top out in the 120MPH range? Not much chance to do more than that when weaving one's way between rocks, pine trees, or the occasional patch of snow. While good ol' Nigel might have been being a bit kind with the comparison, I have sought some new information to add to the mix. The only time that I know of that an F1 car was put to an unbiased open test was the May 1976 issue of Road & Track when they fully tested a Ferrari 312B3. This car, 490HP and 1300 LB did 0-60 in 2.4 seconds, the 1/4 Mile at 9.0 seconds at 159 MPH even being geared for a top speed of 192 MPH. Now given the fact that this Ferrari had a power to weight ratio of 2.7 lb/hp and the later turbos were in the range of 1.0 to 1.5 lb/hp I think the 1980s F1 cars would be substantially faster. The best info I can come up with on the Group B cars' performance seems to be 0-60 times in the high 2s to low 3s with the quickest of the bunch being the Lancia Delta 4 with a 0-60 time of 2.3 seconds. It is therefore reasonably safe to calculate that as speeds increased to 120 MPH, 150 MPH, and over 180 MPH the F1 car would (almost literally) suck the big headlights out of any Group B car.
Bronson
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 18:09 | 0 |
Last year I visited a museum in which there were tons of nice and rare cars belonging to one of Lithuania's automotive legends - Stasys Brundza. Unsurprisingly, something caught my eye:
That yellow one (called "EVA") had a four stroke, an inline-four, turbocharged 1.7 L engine with 270 hp. The other one ("EVA 2") was naturally-aspirated with 168 hp.
JayHova
> Bronson
08/05/2013 at 18:15 | 0 |
Thanks for sharing those pictures! Do you have more pictures of eastern block race cars to share?
Afaik were those two cars also a work of VTFS (Vilniusskaja fabrika transportnyh sredstv), the guys that created the Lada 2105VTFS.
brian
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 18:23 | 0 |
The ford RS 200 was also driven by Stig... up Pikes Peak in the 80's...
Bronson
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 19:00 | 1 |
Not much. There were some zaporozhets, pobedas, moskvitches and volgas which, presumably, have seen some dirt. Apart from that, there were a couple of tasty looking ladas:
And yes, all of these Ladas's, including the EVA's, are indeed the work of VTFS (Brundza was in fact the founder of the workshop).
-Amateur
> Reginald Fessenden
08/05/2013 at 21:13 | 0 |
I totally agree with you. No way can they go to to toe with an F1 car, especially on top speed and handling. But the acceleration capabilities was there, with their AWD and excellent traction and launch capabilities. Interesting to note that Lancia did test an S4 with 5 bars of boost that netted 1000 HP back in 1985, but we all know that didn't compete in Group B rallies.
Scooty Puff Sr.
> Reginald Fessenden
08/05/2013 at 22:44 | 1 |
Call me when you find footage of an FW09 on the 1000 Lakes Rally.
Othala
> -Amateur
08/05/2013 at 23:24 | 0 |
It looks like this is an overview rather than a full guide(judging by all the comments wanting to add their favorite cars. But I for one realllllly appreciate guides likes this. I am too young to see these things racing, so it is a great way to fill me in on why I should love the 037 in Forza so much.
Foo2rama
> JayHova
08/05/2013 at 23:51 | 1 |
Both the 288gto and 959 where made for group B Sportscar racing, not group B rally. They had an identical formula, but the cars where a little different, they did both share engine displacement and homologation rules. Group B sportscar was very short lived as the FIA moved the spec to favor the rally cars. Paris Dakar did not run Group B spec cars. Frankly the Group B cars could not be competitive and honestly I do not think that they could even complete that race.
The M1 was delivered in 1978 and group B rules started in 81. It was never intended to rally in any case.
Also the 959 never rallied... and there is alot of confusion on this. First while some histories state that the 959 was designed for group B rally, that is just confusion with the 2 different group B specs. Porsche stated they never intended for it to race rally, it was for sportscar group B which was on the street.
When Porsche began development of the 959, it looked toward Group B racing as a road-racing laboratory with which to develop technology for production cars . When Group B became focused on rallying events, however, Porsche felt the relevance to production cars was greatly reduced, and the goal of the 959 project shifted to frank state-of-the-art, cost-no-object technological innovation.
The "959's" in Paris Dakar where actually 911's with 959 like body work using a similar awd drive system and was called the 953, but are at the core 911's built from 911 frames not using a 935 derived engine like the 959. The three 961's are actually the only racing 959's ever built and where only raced in 3 road races, Le Mans in GTX class and 2 others. There is some info that Porsche took 3 959's to one group B rally race in 1985 and all failed to finish. There are no pictures of them on the internet that I can find, only pics of the Paris Dakar 911's leading this to perhaps be bad information.
I guess it is all how you look at it, I prefer to use the Porsche official history on this and ignore the "959" body work on the Paris Dakar cars and consider them 4x4 911's.
JayHova
> Foo2rama
08/06/2013 at 01:35 | 1 |
Thanks for pointing out that there also was a groupB roadracing formula.
Even though the idea now lacks 'historial' foundation I still think a rallye-prepped 288GTO getting hooned on gravel would be awesome.
typhoon5000
> typhoon5000
08/06/2013 at 07:27 | 0 |
Another fun fact is the V6 in the 6R4 Group B car became the basis for the V6 in the Jaguar XJ220, a bit with a couple of turbos strapped to it ;-)
JayHova
> Scooty Puff Sr.
08/06/2013 at 10:34 | 0 |
This is the closest thing I've found. I think it's safe to say that a F1 car would be significantly slower offroad, while the group B cars would barely be able to 'keep up' on a well paved racetrack (see Toivonen's mythic 6th place qualifiying time in Estoril, of which I haven't seen any proof, just hearsay).
Jedediah Beall
> Nick-Speed
08/06/2013 at 11:24 | 0 |
I know it is not original starting grid charts but according to this most of these ARE Group B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r…
1carfreak1
> Expulsion1989
08/12/2013 at 02:55 | 0 |
Is that an MR2?
Expulsion1989
> 1carfreak1
08/12/2013 at 11:44 | 0 |
Yep!
288GTOhYEAH
> Expulsion1989
08/17/2013 at 02:46 | 0 |
Forgotten but so goddamn gorgeous. I hope to some day have the money to make some replicas of this bad boy. For real.
integrale-iom
> Reginald Fessenden
09/29/2013 at 16:32 | 1 |
What kind of idiot are you. If you put a f1 car on a rally stage it wouldn't even get of f the start line and toivonen put a s4 through its unnatural habitat and drove it faster than most of the field and the s4 was not very aerodynamic compared to a f1 car. Group b will always be the best time in motorsport.
Reginald Fessenden
> -Amateur
10/23/2013 at 14:57 | 0 |
Yes speed is speed, but you AGAIN fail to comprehend that the speed envelope of a Group B rally car is limited to perhaps 100-120MPH while the F1 car performance extends to roughly 200MPH and both vehicles are geared accordingly. With such short gearing some of the Group B cars might match a F1 car of the era to 60-80MPH but above that there would be no contest. If the Group B car were to be regeared to reach 200MPH it would accelerate that much slower. Get it? Obviously talking power to weight ratios and gearing (not to mention high speed aerodynamics) will not disincline you from your present opinion. You just can't be arguing that 100-120MPH is the SAME SPEED as 200MPH are you?
Reginald Fessenden
> integrale-iom
10/23/2013 at 14:58 | 0 |
Yes speed is speed, but you AGAIN fail to comprehend that the speed envelope of a Group B rally car is limited to perhaps 100-120MPH while the F1 car performance extends to roughly 200MPH and both vehicles are geared accordingly. With such short gearing some of the Group B cars might match a F1 car of the era to 60-80MPH but above that there would be no contest. If the Group B car were to be regeared to reach 200MPH it would accelerate that much slower. Get it? Obviously talking power to weight ratios and gearing (not to mention high speed aerodynamics) will not disincline you from your present opinion. You just can't be arguing that 100-120MPH is the SAME SPEED as 200MPH are you?
MAB6T
> Reginald Fessenden
01/04/2014 at 22:26 | 0 |
Just saying yes f1 was quick and yes group b were quick in tgere natrual elements the were both demons that ate track for breakfast, lunch, and dinner but i sit more on group b. no not because i rally and because im more of a rally fan but cars like the S4 were going out of corners and accelerating to 100 in 2 seconds. The S4 and quattro if i remember right were both made 1000+ hp but was limited because drivers couldn't handle the cars with that much power. On tarmac obviously the f1 cars would beat the group b because they were more optimised. Same for the group b's except they were more general purpose. Comparing the two when they've switched track types doesnt make much sense at least to me. The group b is going to be slower on tarmac because of things like power, aero, and setups (suspension, tyres, etc.). Same for the formula 1 car minus the aero and power probably. My verdict sits in a tie since there are so many differences between the two that the comparision doesnt really resemble each other other than that they're both racecars.
integrale-iom
> Nick-Speed
06/13/2014 at 13:48 | 0 |
they are all group b cars. they just didn't compete on the world scene. they were all homologated. for example that is why were are less than 200 ferrari 288gto's
integrale-iom
> Nick-Speed
06/13/2014 at 13:56 | 0 |
the 037 was a group b. you need to get some knowledge. the car was developed in 1982 once the rules had been released. most people just think of the key cars like the quattro and t16 but there was over 60 cars homologated.
integrale-iom
> James May is my spirit animal
06/13/2014 at 13:56 | 0 |
stratos is not group b it is group 4
integrale-iom
> philphil
06/13/2014 at 13:56 | 0 |
stratos is not group b it is group 4
integrale-iom
> Ninja-GUY
06/13/2014 at 13:58 | 0 |
959 was but the f40 was not.
Nick-Speed
> integrale-iom
06/13/2014 at 14:37 | 0 |
The 037 was started started as a Group 4 car (Pre Group B) it "fell" into Group B when those regulations came about. It was not started explicitly as a Group B car.
James May is my spirit animal
> integrale-iom
06/13/2014 at 15:53 | 0 |
My fault~ #newb
integrale-iom
> Nick-Speed
09/16/2014 at 14:38 | 0 |
the car was not homologated into group 4. it never met the requirements for group 4. they never made 400 that needed to be made. the fia allowed the teams who were registered for group b to test in 1982. hence why lancia only did a few events